Great post! I'd never heard of the Chicken of Tomorrow competition. Fascinating.
I also think those NECTAR surveys are highly encouraging. Better, cheaper alt proteins can't come soon enough. I recently had a chance to see live sows in gestation crates on display at the Minnesota state fair. The fact that thousands of people can see that and be unaffected makes me think I might have been overestimating the idea that if slaughterhouses had glass walls, there'd be more vegans.
Those fairgoers are not going to skip the pulled pork sandwich because they just saw a pig being tortured. But I bet they would if there was a cheaper and tastier alt-pork sandwich available in the next booth over!
Thanks Drew! I just read your great piece on the Minnesota state fair. I agree slaughterhouses having glass walls isn't enough. But I do think most people would vote to stop these cruelties if given the chance. Still, a good reminder that we have a long way to go!
Thanks for pulling this research together. The interplay of taste, texture and price (against a background of indoctrination/history/habit) is complicated and varies across populations. But when I see the awful stuff that people will buy based on price alone, and I see the cost of living hitting hard against the poorest people, I'm inclined to hold the greatest hope for lower prices influencing consumer behaviour. I also hold great hope for cultivated meats, once scale allows them to be competitive. (As a disclaimer, I've even invested $ there.) Your article shows how much change there has been in recent years, which gives me hope too. I don't expect to see an end to farmed animals in my lifetime, but maybe the next generation will embrace a world free from animal suffering.
“It used to only be for vegetarians and health nuts; now it’s for everyone.”
Not to be a downer, but I don’t know anyone but vegetarians/vegans/health nuts who consume plant-based meats. Most meat eaters I know tried beyond/impossible meats when they first came outa and thought they were pretty good for a veggie burger but a long way from the real thing. They then went promptly back to meat eating.
Ugh feels like the same mindset as those who eat animal meat without thought for animals. "All nuggets are processed, so the ultra-processed attacks on plant-based nuggets are weaker". The problem with many vegetarian/vegan options is that many are grossly unhealthy! Impossible burger loaded with Sodium, morningStar also very unhealthy. Most people with Diabetes or health issues can not eat processed vegetable, fake meat! It would literally kill them. Lab grown meat is absolutely disgusting & unnatural. Humans are so stupid & cocky to think they can play God they just keep fucking up the planet. Humans are simple creatures, not evolved enough to realize they have destroyed their own habitat & refuse to stop the destruction. They just keep breeding in an unsustainable manor that the earth can Not support. Population growth must be regulated, I for one decided not to have kids.
To be Vegan or Vegetarian and healthy means not trying to make fake meat but eating whole foods & grains as nature intended.
Perhaps the occasional animal protein raised with respect & dignity & given thanks for its sacrifice to give a human/s life but not lab protein, yuck!
Lewis, I share your desire to end all factory farms: they are not only inhumane, but a key driver in the what may well prove to be the biggest threat to human health in the 21st century: antimicrobial resistance.
That said, Hans' comment is simply put: true. The data on ultra processed foods is strongly powered and clearly demonstrates that as we bring technology into the mix and solve for taste, texture and form factors to mimic certain foods like meat, fish and dairy products, we completely alter these materials into palatable but foreign materials that the body does not recognize, reducing bioavailability and in some cases producing autoimmune type responses that cause inflammation and exacerbate what all agree are profound health epidemics of obesity and type II diabetes and overall metabolic dysfunction. In the case of Impossible and likely to be the case with many lab grown products, it goes beyond ultra processed as bespoke synthetic ingredients introduce new unknowns that we don't know what the effects of will be. We DO know they are also ultraprocessed, so these unknowns compound an already highly problematic situation making it potentially worse for certain products.
Even Brian Katemen of "reducetarian" fame who works at the GFI has conceded these are unhealthy junk foods (wired magazine piece a few years ago).
As someone who grew up obese and who was transformed 30+ years ago through switching to a whole food centered diet, the overwhelming refusal of the plant based/cellular ag proponents to address this fatal flaw in the entire sector has always struck me as dishonest and quite disturbing.
Have you addressed this in your travels and would you care to share your thinking? I used to support the space circa 2018 as I felt it was a powerful conversation started, and some ultraprocessed indulgences that highlighted how broken the food system was were valuable and could hardly make things worse. That was before $25B in capital poured in and the health and eco claims went off the rails as did the suggestion these foods should scale and become a substantial portion of our future food supply.
Many of them also rely on conventionally farmed monocultures which are also deleterious dead ends as harmful as factory farms in the decimation of ecosystems that get slathered in petrochemical fertilizers and pesticides.
Would appreciate any thoughts you have on these issues and what might be done to address them rather than dismiss or even ignore them.
Sincerely,
A dude who wants a healthy planet and healthy humans 🙏
Great post! I'd never heard of the Chicken of Tomorrow competition. Fascinating.
I also think those NECTAR surveys are highly encouraging. Better, cheaper alt proteins can't come soon enough. I recently had a chance to see live sows in gestation crates on display at the Minnesota state fair. The fact that thousands of people can see that and be unaffected makes me think I might have been overestimating the idea that if slaughterhouses had glass walls, there'd be more vegans.
Those fairgoers are not going to skip the pulled pork sandwich because they just saw a pig being tortured. But I bet they would if there was a cheaper and tastier alt-pork sandwich available in the next booth over!
I wrote about my experience seeing animals at the fair recently, some readers here might find it interesting: https://expandingcircle.substack.com/p/a-critical-look-at-the-animals-of
Thanks Drew! I just read your great piece on the Minnesota state fair. I agree slaughterhouses having glass walls isn't enough. But I do think most people would vote to stop these cruelties if given the chance. Still, a good reminder that we have a long way to go!
Thanks for pulling this research together. The interplay of taste, texture and price (against a background of indoctrination/history/habit) is complicated and varies across populations. But when I see the awful stuff that people will buy based on price alone, and I see the cost of living hitting hard against the poorest people, I'm inclined to hold the greatest hope for lower prices influencing consumer behaviour. I also hold great hope for cultivated meats, once scale allows them to be competitive. (As a disclaimer, I've even invested $ there.) Your article shows how much change there has been in recent years, which gives me hope too. I don't expect to see an end to farmed animals in my lifetime, but maybe the next generation will embrace a world free from animal suffering.
Thanks for this post - lots of good research pulled together well.
What a dope post and hard hitting ending "Factory-farmed meat won’t get any better. Alternative proteins can only get better."
“It used to only be for vegetarians and health nuts; now it’s for everyone.”
Not to be a downer, but I don’t know anyone but vegetarians/vegans/health nuts who consume plant-based meats. Most meat eaters I know tried beyond/impossible meats when they first came outa and thought they were pretty good for a veggie burger but a long way from the real thing. They then went promptly back to meat eating.
I’m holding out hope for cultivated meats!
Health nuts don't eat fake meat, it's unhealthy usually!
You’re probably right in general, but the one health nut in my life does, probably because it has healthy vibes
Ugh feels like the same mindset as those who eat animal meat without thought for animals. "All nuggets are processed, so the ultra-processed attacks on plant-based nuggets are weaker". The problem with many vegetarian/vegan options is that many are grossly unhealthy! Impossible burger loaded with Sodium, morningStar also very unhealthy. Most people with Diabetes or health issues can not eat processed vegetable, fake meat! It would literally kill them. Lab grown meat is absolutely disgusting & unnatural. Humans are so stupid & cocky to think they can play God they just keep fucking up the planet. Humans are simple creatures, not evolved enough to realize they have destroyed their own habitat & refuse to stop the destruction. They just keep breeding in an unsustainable manor that the earth can Not support. Population growth must be regulated, I for one decided not to have kids.
To be Vegan or Vegetarian and healthy means not trying to make fake meat but eating whole foods & grains as nature intended.
Perhaps the occasional animal protein raised with respect & dignity & given thanks for its sacrifice to give a human/s life but not lab protein, yuck!
Lewis, I share your desire to end all factory farms: they are not only inhumane, but a key driver in the what may well prove to be the biggest threat to human health in the 21st century: antimicrobial resistance.
That said, Hans' comment is simply put: true. The data on ultra processed foods is strongly powered and clearly demonstrates that as we bring technology into the mix and solve for taste, texture and form factors to mimic certain foods like meat, fish and dairy products, we completely alter these materials into palatable but foreign materials that the body does not recognize, reducing bioavailability and in some cases producing autoimmune type responses that cause inflammation and exacerbate what all agree are profound health epidemics of obesity and type II diabetes and overall metabolic dysfunction. In the case of Impossible and likely to be the case with many lab grown products, it goes beyond ultra processed as bespoke synthetic ingredients introduce new unknowns that we don't know what the effects of will be. We DO know they are also ultraprocessed, so these unknowns compound an already highly problematic situation making it potentially worse for certain products.
Even Brian Katemen of "reducetarian" fame who works at the GFI has conceded these are unhealthy junk foods (wired magazine piece a few years ago).
As someone who grew up obese and who was transformed 30+ years ago through switching to a whole food centered diet, the overwhelming refusal of the plant based/cellular ag proponents to address this fatal flaw in the entire sector has always struck me as dishonest and quite disturbing.
Have you addressed this in your travels and would you care to share your thinking? I used to support the space circa 2018 as I felt it was a powerful conversation started, and some ultraprocessed indulgences that highlighted how broken the food system was were valuable and could hardly make things worse. That was before $25B in capital poured in and the health and eco claims went off the rails as did the suggestion these foods should scale and become a substantial portion of our future food supply.
Many of them also rely on conventionally farmed monocultures which are also deleterious dead ends as harmful as factory farms in the decimation of ecosystems that get slathered in petrochemical fertilizers and pesticides.
Would appreciate any thoughts you have on these issues and what might be done to address them rather than dismiss or even ignore them.
Sincerely,
A dude who wants a healthy planet and healthy humans 🙏